[Auscope-geosciml] GeologicSpecimen (Which O&M version for GeoSciML - a follow up) [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

stephen richard steve.richard at azgs.az.gov
Wed Oct 21 01:06:18 EDT 2009 

>  
>
> - /“//Use SFN_Specimen in ISO19156 O&M? it has all properties of 
> LocatedSpecimen ?”/  Yes and yes.  The new SFN_Specimen has all the 
> properties of the old sa:LocatedSpecimen (including currentLocation) 
> _except_ that the link to surveyProcedure is indirect (via a 
> relatedSamplingfeature) rather than a direct link.
>
good!
>
> - /“OM_Process is abstract ....I think we need a concrete subtype of 
> OM_Process for geologic sampling procedures--one that at least allows 
> ScopedName for the prodedure type so controlledVocabulary can be 
> used.”/   What you describe is as I have modelled in the proposed v3.0 
> UML:
>

only diff is deriving SamplingProcess from OM_Process (ISO19156) instead 
of the old O&M Process.  Looks good.
steve
>
>  
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ollie
>
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> /------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/
>
> /Ollie Raymond
> National Advice,  Maps and Standards Project/
>
> */Geoscience /**/Australia/*
>
> */ /*
>
> *Address:* GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia *|* *ABN:* 80 
> 091 799 039
>
> *Ph:* (02) 62499575 *|* *Fax:* (02) 62499992 *|* *Email: 
> *Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au
>
> *Web:*  
> http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp
>
> *Google Map 
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1> 
> *
>
>  
>
> -- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons --
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> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 October 2009 9:23 AM
> *To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
> *Subject:* Re: [Auscope-geosciml] GeologicSpecimen (Which O&M version 
> for GeoSciML - a follow up) [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>  
>
>
> Ollie
> Can you chase this up with Chris Body and submit to ISO?
> I'd rather see ISO maintaining classes that we can use rather than 
> CGI/IWG maintaining its own specialisations.
>
> Bruce
>
> GeoScience Victoria
> EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
> Department of Primary Industries
> Melbourne, Victoria
> AUSTRALIA
> Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
> Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
> Mobile: +61 429 177155
>
> *"Simon Cox" <simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu>*
> Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 20/10/2009 05:23 PM
>
> Please respond to
> auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 	
>
> To
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> <auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
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> cc
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>  
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> Subject
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> Re: [Auscope-geosciml] GeologicSpecimen (Which O&M version for       
>  GeoSciML - a follow up) [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>  
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> Do you need a 'specimen type' attribute added?
> The ISO editting committee meets in Quebec the week after next.
> If you could submit a quick change request I'll see if I can introduce 
> it.
> Only needs to be in ISO table form - ask Chris Body.
>  
> --------------------------------------------------------*
> Simon Cox*
>
> European Commission, Joint Research Centre
> Institute for Environment and Sustainability
> Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262
> Via E. Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy
> Tel: +39 0332 78 3652
> Fax: +39 0332 78 6325 _
> _mailto:simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu _
> _http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox
>
> SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au*
> Sent:* Tuesday, 20 October 2009 04:56*
> To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au*
> Subject:* Re: [Auscope-geosciml] GeologicSpecimen (Which O&M version 
> for GeoSciML - a follow up) [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>
> Perhaps an O&M oversight?  The use case is valid, but can it be 
> obtained from 'ProcessModel' (OM_Process)?
>
> Bruce
>
> GeoScience Victoria
> EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
> Department of Primary Industries
> Melbourne, Victoria
> AUSTRALIA
> Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
> Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
> Mobile: +61 429 177155
>
> *<Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au>*
> Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 20/10/2009 01:02 PM
>
> Please respond to
> auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 	
>
>  
>
> To
>
> 	
>
> <auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
>
> cc
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> 	
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>  
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> Subject
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> [Auscope-geosciml] GeologicSpecimen (Which O&M version for GeoSciML - 
> a follow up) [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
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> Hi Bruce
>  
> My use case for including GeologicSpecimen/geologicSpecimenType is for 
> finding specific specimen types, like thin sections, core samples, or 
> probe spots.  There is no equivalent “specimen type” attribute in 
> sa:Specimen.  I suppose you could infer specimen types from 
> samplingMethod, but I’d rather not.  Is my use case useful?
>  
> Cheers,
> Ollie
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----*
> From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au*
> Sent:* Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:40 PM*
> To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au*
> Subject:* Re: [Auscope-geosciml] Which O&M version for GeoSciML - a 
> follow up [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>  
>
> My point is that there is nothing special about geological specimens 
> that distinguishes them from other specimens, so why specialise?
>
> Bruce
>
> GeoScience Victoria
> EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
> Department of Primary Industries
> Melbourne, Victoria
> AUSTRALIA
> Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
> Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
> Mobile: +61 429 177155
>
> *<Guillaume.Duclaux at csiro.au>*
> Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 20/10/2009 12:26 PM
>
>  
>
> Please respond to
> auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 	
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>  
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> To
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> <auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
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> cc
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> Subject
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> Re: [Auscope-geosciml] Which O&M version for GeoSciML - a       
>  follow        up        [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
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> Hi guys,
>
> Bruce, couple of emails have been exchanged on the mailing list in 
> regards of the GeologicSpecimen model.
> The discussion isn't resolved but as Ollie addressed the cardinality 
> issue I pointed out in my last message, this new version sounds fine 
> with me.
>
> Also, Ollie gave a clear definition of the geologicSpecimenType 
> property he defined in the model.
>
> Cheers
>
> Gilly
>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Dr Guillaume Duclaux
> Structural Geologist /  Modeller
> CSIRO Exploration and Mining
> Visiting address: ARRC, 26 Dick Perry Av., Kensington WA 6151
> Postal address: PO Box 1130, Bentley WA 6102, Australia
> Ph: + 61 8 6436 8728    Fax: + 61 8 6436 8555    Web: www.csiro.au 
> <http://www.csiro.au/>
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> *
> From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au*
> Sent:* Tuesday, 20 October 2009 8:50 AM*
> To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au*
> Subject:* Re: [Auscope-geosciml] Which O&M version for GeoSciML - a 
> follow up [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>
> Hi Ollie,
> I'm happy with the change.
>
> However, was the discussion with Guillame regarding the need for 
> GeologicSpecimen resolved?
>
> The latest .eap model looks like it has replaced Gilly's classes with 
> just two GeologicSpecimen and SamplingProcess. I don't recall 
> discussion on this decision.  Is therea TWiki page where it is 
> documented?
>
> I question the need for the GeologicSpecimen class.
>
> 1. As GeologicSpecimen a specialisation of Specimen,  why does 
> materialClass need to be specialised?  
> 2. GeologicSpecimenType - Again I don't see the need for a specific 
> GeoSciML property. All specimens should potentially have this property 
> which I believe is covered by the samplingMethod property.
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
> GeoScience Victoria
> EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
> Department of Primary Industries
> Melbourne, Victoria
> AUSTRALIA
> Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
> Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
> Mobile: +61 429 177155
>
> *<Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au>*
> Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 19/10/2009 03:09 PM
>
>  
>
> Please respond to
> auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
>
> 	
>
>  
>
>  
>
> To
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> 	
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> <auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
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> cc
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>  
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> Subject
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> [Auscope-geosciml] Which O&M version for GeoSciML - a follow up       
>  [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
>
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> Hi Modellers,
>
> Back in August, I didn’t get any feedback from anyone except Simon 
> about the implications of changes for GeologicSpecimens and 
> SurveyProcedure between the old OGC and new ISO versions of O&M.
>
> The one main difference for us I think is that there would be no 
> direct link in ISO O&M from GeologicSpecimen to SurveyProcedure.  This 
> means you have to encode a related spatial sampling feature (like a 
> sampling point outcrop or a sampling curve borehole) to deliver survey 
> details for a specimen.  Personally, I have softened my initial 
> concerns with the OGC-to-ISO change - a specimen should logically come 
> from an outcrop or a borehole or some other related sampling device.  
>
> Is everyone OK with this change, and we can move GeologicSpecimen to 
> the new ISO version of O&M?
>
> Cheers,
> Ollie
>
> ISO O&M class diagram:
> /
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ 
> /
> Ollie Raymond
> National Advice,  Maps and Standards Project/ */
> Geoscience Australia/* *
>
> Address:* GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia *|* *ABN:* 80 
> 091 799 039 *
> Ph:* (02) 62499575 *|* *Fax:* (02) 62499992 *|* *Email: 
> *Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au *
> Web:* 
>  http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp 
>
>
> *Google Map* 
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1>* 
> *
>
> -- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons --
>
>
> -----Original Message-----*
> From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Simon Cox*
> Sent:* Saturday, 1 August 2009 12:37 AM*
> To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au*
> Subject:* Re: [Auscope-geosciml] An O&M question - Survey Details and 
> location of Specimen [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>
> 1. because the ISO 19156 version of O&M will have a few significant 
> changes relative to the OGC O&M, I have rebuilt the OGC O&M as an 
> independent package within HollowWorld.
> This allows you to choose which version you use. If you prefer O&M 
> v1.0, then you can use that.
> 2. ISO 19156 O&M is now in the hands of the ISO 19156 Editting 
> Committee. I am the editor, but from now on can only respond to change 
> requests submitted formally in response to calls as part of the ISO 
> process, or through the OGC O&M v2.0 SWG. SO if there are any changes 
> you would like to see, you should realise that there is a formal 
> process to get these in.
> 3. As part of the process of updating O&M for submission to ISO, there 
> was some refactoring. Specimen and LocatedSpecimen were collapsed into 
> one class, with an optional samplingLocation.
> Spatial sampling features were refactored into an independent branch. 
> It seemed to make sense to associate the survey procedure with spatial 
> samplign features, so as you note it is no longer available on 
> Specimen. I don;t have a strong feeling about this, but in general try 
> to minimize the appearance of 'optional' properties.
>
> Simon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Simon Cox
>
> European Commission, Joint Research Centre,
> Institute for Environment and Sustainability,
> Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262
> Via E. Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy
> Tel: +39 0332 78 3652
> Fax: +39 0332 78 6325
> e-mail: simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu <mailto:simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu>
>
> SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
>
>
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *
> From:* auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
> [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] *On Behalf Of 
> *Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au*
> Sent:* Wednesday, 29 July 2009 07:43*
> To:* auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au*
> Subject:* [Auscope-geosciml] An O&M question - Survey Details and 
> location of Specimen [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> A question mainly for Simon, but others as well....
>
> The latest O&M/Sampling schema allows me to encode a samplingLocation 
> of a Specimen without the need to locate it using a related 
> SpatialSamplingFeature (like an outcrop or drillhole).
>
> However, Specimen has no direct link to SurveyProcedure (like who 
> collected it, location accuracy, datum etc).  To access the 
> SurveyProcedure for a located specimen, I still have to encode a 
> related SpatialSamplingFeature (eg, a SamplingPoint which also has 
> mandatory location data) and repeat the location information that I 
> have just encoded for Specimen/samplingLocation.  
>
> Should there be a direct association between Specimen and 
> SurveyProcedure to cater for located specimens?  Then you wouldn’t 
> have to encode a related SpatialSamplingFeature which I presume was 
> the original idea behind adding samplingLocation to Specimen?
>
> Cheers,
> Ollie
>
>
>
>
> /
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ 
> /
> Ollie Raymond
> National Advice,  Maps and Standards Project/ */
> Geoscience Australia/* *
>
> Address:* GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia *|* *ABN:* 80 
> 091 799 039 *
> Ph:* (02) 62499575 *|* *Fax:* (02) 62499992 *|* *Email: 
> *Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au *
> Web:* 
>  http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp 
>
>
> *Google Map* 
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1>* 
> *
>
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