[Auscope-geosciml] RE : GroundwaterML [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Boisvert, Eric Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca
Wed Sep 2 13:04:46 EDT 2009


hmm.. it was there (check my inbox).  I will blame our web based mail client.
 
Eric

________________________________

De : auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au [mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] De la part de Stephen M Richard
Envoyé : 2 septembre 2009 11:22
À : auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Objet : Re: [Auscope-geosciml] RE : GroundwaterML [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]


Eric--your attached figure didn't make it. 
steve


Boisvert, Eric wrote: 

	Here the description we have
	 
	An excavation where the intended use is for location, acquisition, development, or artificial recharge of ground water.
	
	http://water.nv.gov/WaterPlanning/dict-1/PDFs/wwords-w.pdf
	
	A water well is an excavation or structure created in the ground ? by digging, driving, boring or drilling to access water in underground aquifers. 
	
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_well <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_well> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_well>  
	
	 
	
	The whole discussion was more around "is water well a role or a thing ?". Boyan rule of thumb is "role can change" and considering that a borehole can stop being a water well, it might be a role.
	 
	some element of the discussion came from the Australian groundwater model, see figure 3.1a and 3.1b - these are places you can draw water from
	http://www.brs.gov.au/land&water/groundwater/fundamental.html#2
	 
	Now, if it's a role, and we can draw groundwater from several features, we came up with the model where a Water well is a point where groundwater is extracted from some other feature.
	The figure attached shows a WaterWell that has a relation (groundwaterAccessFeature) to any feature
	I think it's a case where we went too 'conceptual'.  While the model is conceptually right (maybe), it is not practical (If we have to explain it at length to people who are knowledgeable in both UML and geology, it must fail the laugh test)
	 
	My intention (and it's Wednesday) is to revert to WaterWell as a subtype of Borehole.
	 
	Eric
	 
	 
	
	________________________________
	
	De: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au de la part de Simon Cox
	Date: mer. 2009-09-02 02:17
	À: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
	Cc: piotr.wojda at jrc.ec.europa.eu
	Objet : Re: [Auscope-geosciml] GroundwaterML [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
	
	
	
	A borehole samples an acquifer (reservoir).
	Water (oil) is transported away from the top of a borehole.
	If you are interested in the details of which molecule came from where, then
	the curve-feature is your thing.
	If you are interested in the quantities produced from some site, then the
	point feature whose location corresponds with one end of the curve is your
	thing.
	They may share some properties.
	
	
	--------------------------------------------------------
	Simon Cox
	
	European Commission, Joint Research Centre,
	Institute for Environment and Sustainability,
	Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262
	Via E. Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy
	Tel: +39 0332 78 3652
	Fax: +39 0332 78 6325
	mailto:simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu
	http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox
	
	SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
	IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
	JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
	--------------------------------------------------------
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
	[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of
	Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au
	Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2009 08:04
	To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
	Cc: piotr.wojda at jrc.ec.europa.eu
	Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] GroundwaterML [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
	
	Hi Eric,
	
	I think it's still Tuesday in Canada right now, so I can support your option
	1  :)
	
	1.  Re well/borehole in GWML, it's not consistent that a water well is a
	specialisation of SamplingPoint, but it has all the associated attributes of
	a GSML:Borehole (a SamplingCurve specialisation).  Being a SamplingPoint
	implies there is no length to a well and you are only describing the collar
	location, but WaterWell has association to a well log which indicates
	length.
	
	To me, this suggests that a GWML:WaterWell is a borehole in all aspects of
	GWML other than not actually being a specialisation of GSML:Borehole.
	
	Could you give an example of when a WaterWell is not a borehole.... perhaps
	when WaterWell/wellDevelopment/Process = "pick and shovel"?
	
	I agree with Bruce, some of the WaterWell descriptors could definitely be
	added to GSML:Borehole.
	
	2.  GWML is not the only place that needs "a good pattern for geochemistry
	(assays)".  I have played with various options at GA in preparation for our
	inorganic geochemistry and geochronology databases going to WFS.  I'll get
	together what I've done to date and send it around.
	
	Cheers,
	Ollie
	
	
	
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Boisvert, Eric [mailto:Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca]
	Sent: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 7:25 PM
	To: Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au; Guillaume.Duclaux at csiro.au; Percival Dale;
	Raymond Oliver
	Cc: piotr.wojda at jrc.ec.europa.eu
	Subject: RE : GroundwaterML
	
	
	there was a epic discussion about "is a WaterWell a Borehole or not".  A
	discussion Pitor Wodja, Jean Brodeur and Boyan Brodaric were part of.
	I think in this model, it's not a borehole, but another SamplingFeature.
	Wells are not always borehole, it's just a feature from which we draw water.
	Sometimes, we draw water from boreholes.  We had intense discussion trying
	to figure if we saw two features (A well and a borehole) or just one which
	is a subtype.
	
	One side of the discussion says it's ludicrous, wells are virtually alway
	always boreholes and for all practical purposes, other kinds of wells can be
	regarded as such.
	The other side claim that Well is a role of a borehole and we should grant
	this role to whatever feature we can draw water from (The Australian
	groundwater model, circa 1999, lists a series, Piotr also has a couple of
	examples from Belgium).
	
	I will defend point of view #1 of Mondays and Tuesdays, during full moon,
	and during Winter Carnaval.
	And will defend #2 when I drank Bordeau wine, when there are not too much
	snow to shovel and when the kids are calm (it's a common saying in Quebec to
	say that kids can predict snow storm).
	I will shoo the discussion in any other situation.
	
	What GWML needs now (and maybe ResourceML and GeoSciML) is a good pattern
	for geoschemistry (assays).  yes, it's O&M, but there are a lots of way to
	encode the same thing in O&M
	
	Eric
	
	
	________________________________
	
	De: Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au [mailto:Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au]
	Date: lun. 2009-08-31 21:45
	À: Guillaume.Duclaux at csiro.au; Dale.Percival at ga.gov.au;
	Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au
	Cc: Boisvert, Eric
	Objet : GroundwaterML
	
	
	
	Hi guys
	Eric Boisvert has extended the Borehole model to cover WaterWells. It is
	documented at:
	GWML is here (version 1 that will soon undergo revision for a v.2 following
	GeoSciML evolution)
	http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html
	<http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html> <http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html> 
	
	A quick look suggests some of the WaterWekll properties are probably
	applicable to Mineral and Petroleum Bores as well(!).(eg wellDepth, status
	etc).
	As part of the modelling F2F meetingshould we be looking at reconciling the
	GWML and GeoSciML Borehole/WaterWell properties?
	
	Cheers
	Bruce
	
	GeoScience Victoria
	EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
	Department of Primary Industries
	Melbourne, Victoria
	AUSTRALIA
	Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
	Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
	Mobile: +61 429 177155
	----- Forwarded by Bruce Simons/DPI/VICGOV1 on 01/09/2009 11:41 AM -----
	
	"Boisvert, Eric" <Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> <mailto:Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> 
	
	31/08/2009 11:00 PM
	
	To
	<Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au> <mailto:Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au> 
	cc
	Subject
	RE: Quebec Face to Face - Show of hands - logistic
	
	
	
	
	
	
	beer probably won't be available for lunch, but there are plenty of watering
	holes around and beer and wine can be bought in convenience stores (7-11
	kind of stores) in this province, and bar closes at 3 am.  You don't want to
	test Quebec wine..
	
	GWML is here (version 1 that will soon undergo revision for a v.2 following
	GeoSciML evolution)
	http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html
	<http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html> <http://ngwd-bdnes.cits.nrcan.gc.ca/service/api_ngwds/en/gwml.html> 
	
	Eric
	
	
	________________________________
	
	De : Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au [mailto:Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au]
	Envoyé : 31 août 2009 08:54
	À : Boisvert, Eric
	Objet : Re: Quebec Face to Face - Show of hands - logistic
	
	
	Lunch boxes good idea - no special requirements apart from wine and beer PS
	can you send a link to the GroundwaterMl websites?
	Bruce
	
	GeoScience Victoria
	EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION
	Department of Primary Industries
	Melbourne, Victoria
	AUSTRALIA
	Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
	Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
	Mobile: +61 429 177155
	
	
	"Boisvert, Eric" <Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> <mailto:Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> 
	
	31/08/2009 10:35 PM
	
	
	
	To
	<ssankaran at esri.com> <mailto:ssankaran at esri.com> , <Alistair.Ritchie at dpi.vic.gov.au> <mailto:Alistair.Ritchie at dpi.vic.gov.au> , "Boisvert, Eric"
	<Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> <mailto:Eric.Boisvert at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> , <Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au> <mailto:Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au> ,
	<Carlo.Cipolloni at apat.it> <mailto:Carlo.Cipolloni at apat.it> , <Dale.Percival at ga.gov.au> <mailto:Dale.Percival at ga.gov.au> , "Dohar, Vic"
	<Vic.Dohar at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca> <mailto:Vic.Dohar at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca> , <trd at bgs.ac.uk> <mailto:trd at bgs.ac.uk> , "Fernando Perez Cerdan"
	<f.perez at igme.es> <mailto:f.perez at igme.es> , "Janjou Dominique" <d.janjou at brgm.fr> <mailto:d.janjou at brgm.fr> , "joel bandibas"
	<joel.bandibas at aist.go.jp> <mailto:joel.bandibas at aist.go.jp> , "Julien, Heryk"
	<Heryk.Julien at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> <mailto:Heryk.Julien at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca> , Lars-Kristian Stölen
	<Lars.Kristian.Stolen at sgu.se> <mailto:Lars.Kristian.Stolen at sgu.se> , "Laxton, John L" <jll at bgs.ac.uk> <mailto:jll at bgs.ac.uk> ,
	<Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au> <mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au> , "Pen, S.J. (Simon)" <Simon.Pen at tno.nl> <mailto:Simon.Pen at tno.nl> , "Rupert,
	James" <James.Rupert at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca> <mailto:James.Rupert at NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca> , "Ryan Clark"
	<ryan.clark.j at gmail.com> <mailto:ryan.clark.j at gmail.com> , "Serrano Jean-Jacques" <jj.serrano at brgm.fr> <mailto:jj.serrano at brgm.fr> ,
	<steve.richard at azgs.az.gov> <mailto:steve.richard at azgs.az.gov> , "Tellez-Arenas Agnes"
	<a.tellez-arenas at brgm.fr> <mailto:a.tellez-arenas at brgm.fr> , "Vuollo Jouni" <jouni.vuollo at gtk.fi> <mailto:jouni.vuollo at gtk.fi>  cc Subject
	Quebec Face to Face - Show of hands - logistic
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	3 weeks to go..
	
	Do we want to repeat Uppsala lunch boxes idea ?  I understand we might have
	a lot of ground to cover in 4.5 days.
	There must be 100 restaurants within 4 blocks around our office, so choice
	is not a problem, but it obviously takes more time.
	
	If we go lunch box - any one has food restrictions we should be aware of ?
	We can provide receipts for those who needs them.
	
	Eric
	
	================================================================
	Eric Boisvert
	Spécialiste TI-GI / IT-IM specialist
	Eric.Boisvert at rncan.gc.ca, 418-654-3705, facsimile/télécopieur
	418-654-2615
	490, rue de la Couronne, Québec (Québec), G1K 9A9 490, rue de la Couronne,
	Quebec, Quebec, G1K 9A9
	
	Laboratoire de cartographie numérique et de photogrammétrie (LCNP) Digital
	Cartography and Photogrammetry Laboratory (DCPL) Commission géologique du
	Canada (Québec) / Geological Survey of Canada (Quebec) Ressources naturelles
	Canada / Natural Resources Canada Gouvernement du Canada / Government of
	Canada http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/org/quebec <http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/org/quebec> <http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/org/quebec> 
	http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_f.php?id=4186
	<http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_f.php?id=4186> <http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_f.php?id=4186>   /
	http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_e.php?id=4186
	<http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_e.php?id=4186> <http://cgc.rncan.gc.ca/dir/index_e.php?id=4186> 
	
	
	
	
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-- 
Stephen M. Richard
Section Chief, Geoinformatics
Arizona Geological Survey
416 W. Congress St., #100
Tucson, Arizona, 85701 USA

Phone: 
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