[Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in GeoSciMLv3.0] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au
Tue Mar 23 22:27:16 EDT 2010


In spite of my best efforts two threads continue under this subject:
1. FullMoon and GML 3.3
2. CGITerm as ScopedName or ControlledConcept

Can they be kept separate please?

Bruce

GeoScience Victoria
AuScope Grid
Australian Spatial Research Data Commons

Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
Fax: +61-3-9658 4555 
Mobile: +61 429 177155



"Simon Cox" <simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu> 
Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au
24/03/2010 12:31 AM
Please respond to
auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au


To
<auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
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Subject
Re: [Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in GeoSciMLv3.0] 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]






This has been on the table for at least 2 years - see 
https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/bin/view/CGIModel/GeoSciMLv3DesignProposals#14_ControlledConcept_vocabularie 
and  
https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/twiki/bin/view/CGIModel/SKOSEncodingForVocabulary


Simon

--------------------------------------------------------
Simon Cox

European Commission, Joint Research Centre 
Institute for Environment and Sustainability 
Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262 
Via E. Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy 
Tel: +39 0332 78 3652 
Fax: +39 0332 78 6325 
mailto:simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu 
http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox 

SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ 
IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ 
JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
--------------------------------------------------------
 
Any opinions expressed are personal unless otherwise indicated. 

-----Original Message-----
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of 
Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au
Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2010 8:58 AM
To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in 
GeoSciMLv3.0] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

So Rob, if I understand you correctly.... you are suggesting that we 
define ControlledConcept in a temporary schema outside of GeoSciML, in the 
hope that we can convince the GML developers to add a similar 
ControlledConcept element to GML 3.3, and then we switch our classmapping 
to using gml/ControlledConcept?

Have I got that right?

Cheers,
Ollie

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ollie Raymond
National Advice, Maps and Standards Project Geoscience Australia

Address: GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia | ABN: 80 091 799 039
Ph: (02) 62499575 | Fax: (02) 62499992 | Email: Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au
WWW: National geological maps - 
http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp
OGC web services - http://www.ga.gov.au/resources/applications/ogc-wms.jsp
Google Map

-- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons --



-----Original Message-----
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of 
Rob.Atkinson at csiro.au
Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2010 8:33 AM
To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in 
GeoSciMLv3.0]

This introduces a governance problem though - ControlledConcept is a 
generic meta-model embedded in a domain model (GeoSciences). Other domains 
cannot easily reuse this pattern, without the somewhat bizarre overhead of 
becoming dependent on the governance of the CGI GeoSciML model.

I dont see why the ScopedName term cant be the identifier of a 
ControlledConcept (or equivalent in any other domain model) - the downside 
being you dont have the human readable label alternative languages/labels 
available?

Is what you really want ian architectural solution, in the meta-model - an 
ISO equivalent of ControlledConcept with a canonical gml representation? 
And therefore what you have is a (possibly temporarily) domain-governed 
gml extension, not part of the CGI model itself?

It would be far easier to get tools to, for example, support switching 
languages in an interface, if the implementation was not domain-specific.

Maybe its easier to use ControlledConcept, but put more effort into 
packaging it as a domain-independent meta-model extension that a part of 
the CGI model. I.e. its a dependency, alongside the ISO stuff, that you 
happen to need to provide in the short term.

All Simon's comments about classMap handling at implementation time still 
hold true, but the implementation architecture is going to rely on 
canonical implementations of these elements in order to allow query and 
portrayal rules to be defined, so its probably worth being quite clear 
about the precise semantics of the contract.

Rob


________________________________
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of Simon Cox 
[simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu]
Sent: Monday, 22 March 2010 6:36 PM
To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in 
GeoSciMLv3.0]

Else what you could do is (what I've been suggesting for a couple of years 
now) replace all 'ScopedName' attributes with 'ControlledConcept' with the 
tagged value inlineOrByReference='byReference'.
That way you get exactly the same effect by fixing the model instead of 
buggering around with the encoding rule in advance of whatever GML does or 
does not.
And its a better model as well.

Simon


--------------------------------------------------------
Simon Cox

European Commission, Joint Research Centre Institute for Environment and 
Sustainability Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262 Via E. Fermi, 
2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy
Tel: +39 0332 78 3652
Fax: +39 0332 78 6325
mailto:simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu
http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox

SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/

--------------------------------------------------------



Any opinions expressed are personal unless otherwise indicated.



________________________________
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of 
Bruce.Simons at dpi.vic.gov.au
Sent: Monday, 22 March 2010 00:44
To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Subject: [Auscope-geosciml] FullMoon and GML3.3 [was CGI_Term in 
GeoSciMLv3.0]


I'm not quite following the intent here.  If preparing for the future, 
then fine, but GeoSciML currently uses GML3.1. With any luck it will be 
GML3.2 compliant by end 2010. I can't see any need to move to GML3.3 in 
the near future.  Is this all a little premature?

Cheers
Bruce

GeoScience Victoria
AuScope Grid
Australian Spatial Research Data Commons

Ph: +61-3-9658 4502
Fax: +61-3-9658 4555
Mobile: +61 429 177155


Létourneau, François <Francois.Letourneau at RNCan-NRCan.gc.ca>
Sent by: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au

17/03/2010 11:00 PM
Please respond to
auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au




To
        <auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au>
cc

Subject
        Re: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]







Shouldn't we apply the precaution principle and add the new classmaps 
tagged as GML 3.3? In Fullmoon, it is quite easy to specify which GML 
version to use for the encoding rules (in encoder.properties). That would 
require however to recreate every existing classmaps for GML 3.3 and 
possibly modify some of these new classmaps if other existing things 
change in GML 3.3 from 3.2.

François

________________________________
De : auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] De la part de Simon 
Cox Envoyé : 17 mars 2010 02:57 À : Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au; 
auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Objet : Re: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

First we have to have agreement on whether it is desirable to make the 
change now, and whether it should be in the default classmap, or a variant 
that we choose to use.
If we make it to the default, it means that FullMoon would no longer be 
following the GML 3.2 encoding rule.

Simon


________________________________

From: Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au [mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au]
Sent: 16 March 2010 22:56
To: simon.cox at jrc.ec.europa.eu; auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Cc: ryan.fraser at csiro.au
Subject: RE: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi Simon,

Who is responsible for making the required changes for FullMoon?

Cheers,
Ollie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ollie Raymond

National Advice, Maps and Standards Project Geoscience Australia

GeoSciML Design Group
IUGS Commission for the Management and Application of Geoscience 
Information

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia | ABN: 80 091 799 039
Ph: +61 2 62499575 | Fax: +61 2 62499992 | Email: 
Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au<mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au> | Google Map<
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1
>
National geological maps 
http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp<
http://www.ga.gov.au/geoscience/national>
Geoscience Australia web services  
http://www.ga.gov.au/resources/applications/ogc-wms.jsp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 --- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons ---


-----Original Message-----
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of Simon Cox
Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2010 5:59 PM
To: auscope-geosciml at lists.arcs.org.au
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Breaking news:

In the GML 3.3 SWG last week the issue of how to refer to an item from a 
controlled source consistently in GML was a hot topic.
To summarize the conclusion I think it goes something like this:

1.       items in controlled vocabularies should have URIs (codeList, 
controlledConcept, etc)
a.       this does not pre-judge how they are implemented, but obviously 
it is RDF/SKOS/OWL- & http-friendly
2.       Feature properties that refer to items from controlled lists 
(i.e. ScopedName) should be implemented using gml:ReferenceType (rather 
than gml:CodeType)
a.       Xlink:href should point to the concept identifier
b.       Xlink:title _may_ be used to provide a human-consumable label, so 
an interface can be built without resolving the URI
             i.      (obviously this is not scalable to multi-lingual 
labelling)

This will get away from the ambiguity regarding what to put in @codeSpace 
and what in the element.

Note that
(a)     this is my interpretation of the discussion (I’m charged with 
writing it up, however)
(b)     it has not yet been voted on, and
(c)     would strictly only apply from GML 3.3.
However, as it doesn’t break anything now and is a totally reasonable 
tweak to the UML-XML mapping rule, I suggest that GeoSciML consider using 
this rule now.

In the FullMoon context it requires that one or more of these entries in 
https://www.seegrid.csiro.au/subversion/HollowWorld/trunk/ClassMaps/ClassMap_ISO_19103_CSL_GML32.xml 
be changed:

        <entry>
               <umlClass>GenericName</umlClass>
               <gmlObjectElement xsi:nil="true"/>
               <gmlType xsi:nil="true"/>
               <gmlPropertyType>gml:CodeType</gmlPropertyType> -> probably 
leave alone, but try not to use GenericName in models
        </entry>
        <entry>
               <umlClass>LocalName</umlClass>
               <gmlObjectElement xsi:nil="true"/>
               <gmlType xsi:nil="true"/>
               <gmlPropertyType>gml:CodeType</gmlPropertyType> -> this 
should be xs:string anyway
        </entry>
        <entry>
               <umlClass>ScopedName</umlClass>
               <gmlObjectElement xsi:nil="true"/>
               <gmlType xsi:nil="true"/>
 <gmlPropertyType>gml:CodeWithAuthorityType</gmlPropertyType> -> change to 
gml:ReferenceType
        </entry>

Simon

________________________________

From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au] On Behalf Of Alistair 
Ritchie
Sent: 16 March 2010 00:52
To: auscope-geosciml
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

How do I send a nice red face? Yes: 'qualifier on CGI_Term'. Thanks for 
that.

If it's an attribute I'm pretty confident that's how it would encode, if 
it is an element I'm a bit confused:

<gsml:lithology 
codeSpace="urn:cgi:classifierScheme:CGI:SimpleLithology:200811">
    urn:cgi:classifierScheme:CGI:SimpleLithology:200811
    <gsml:qualifier>sometimes</gsml:qualifier>
</gsml:lithology>

Seems nasty.

WRT your question: I'm not Full Moon expert but I would have expected you 
woul use a Tagged Value to define an attribute.

Alistair Ritchie
GEOSCIENCE VICTORIA | EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION Department of Primary 
Industries | Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Tel: +61 3 9658 4512 | Fax: +61 3 9658 4555 On 16 March 2010 10:00, 
<Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au<mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au>> wrote:
Hi Alistair,

Re question 1.   Ah, you mean why is ‘qualifier’ mandatory in CGI_Term? I 
think it is just an oversight.  As far as I can tell, there was no 
discussion of this point at Quebec?  Probably should be optional like in 
v2.0.

Re question 2.   Hmm, not exactly sure how this would encode.  Your 
attempt is as good as I could do.

As a related question... In the UML, I have never known how to make an 
attribute occur in the schema as an attribute within the tag (like 
qualifier=”sometimes”), rather than as an attribute between the tags (like 
<qualifier>sometimes</qualifier>).  eg; swe:AbstractDataComponent encodes 
its attributes within its element tag, but I can’t see anything in the UML 
which makes it different to swe:Quantity which encodes its attributes 
outside the element tag.



<swe:Quantity definition="urn:test:xxx" fixed="false">
            <swe:uom xlink:href="#ppm"/>
            <swe:value>23.6</swe:value>
</swe:Quantity>

Any ideas?

Cheers,
Ollie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ollie Raymond

National Advice, Maps and Standards Project Geoscience Australia

GeoSciML Design Group
IUGS Commission for the Management and Application of Geoscience 
Information

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia | ABN: 80 091 799 039
Ph: +61 2 62499575 | Fax: +61 2 62499992 | Email: 
Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au<mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au> | Google Map<
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1
>
National geological maps 
http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp<
http://www.ga.gov.au/geoscience/national>
Geoscience Australia web services  
http://www.ga.gov.au/resources/applications/ogc-wms.jsp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 --- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons ---


-----Original Message-----
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au<
mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au> 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au<
mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au>] On Behalf Of Alistair 
Ritchie
Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2010 8:59 AM
To: auscope-geosciml
Subject: Re: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0 
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi Ollie

The email address is registered and I've been using it since last year. 
Odd.

Is it an attribute like codeSpace? Would it encode as:

<gsml:lithology 
codeSpace="urn:cgi:classifierScheme:CGI:SimpleLithology:200811" 
qualifier="sometimes">
    urn:cgi:classifierScheme:CGI:SimpleLithology:200811</gsml:lithology>

Cheers

Alistair Ritchie
GEOSCIENCE VICTORIA | EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION Department of Primary 
Industries | Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Tel: +61 3 9658 4512 | Fax: +61 3 9658 4555 On 16 March 2010 08:45, 
<Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au<mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au>> wrote:
Hi Alistair,

I think your email to the list bounced - your gmail account is probably 
not registered with the list.

Could you rephrase question 2?  Doesn’t make sense to me.

Cheers,
Ollie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ollie Raymond

National Advice, Maps and Standards Project Geoscience Australia

GeoSciML Design Group
IUGS Commission for the Management and Application of Geoscience 
Information

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: GPO Box 378, Canberra, ACT, 2601, Australia | ABN: 80 091 799 039
Ph: +61 2 62499575 | Fax: +61 2 62499992 | Email: 
Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au<mailto:Oliver.Raymond at ga.gov.au> | Google Map<
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=canberra+australia&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.344028,149.158362&spn=0.007684,0.016404&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1
>
National geological maps 
http://www.ga.gov.au/minerals/research/national/nat_maps/nat_geol_maps.jsp<
http://www.ga.gov.au/geoscience/national>
Geoscience Australia web services  
http://www.ga.gov.au/resources/applications/ogc-wms.jsp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 --- This message was created with 100% recycled electrons ---


-----Original Message-----
From: auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au<
mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au> 
[mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au<
mailto:auscope-geosciml-bounces at lists.arcs.org.au>] On Behalf Of Alistair 
Ritchie
Sent: Monday, 15 March 2010 5:20 PM
To: AuScope-GeoSciML
Subject: [Auscope-geosciml] CGI_Term in GeoSciML v3.0

Hi Everyone

Quick and easy questions concerning the new CGI_Term in GeoSciML 3.0:
1.      Why is it mandatory?
2.      Is it an attribute of CGI_Term?
Cheers
Alistair

Alistair Ritchie
GEOSCIENCE VICTORIA | EARTH RESOURCES DIVISION Department of Primary 
Industries | Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Tel: +61 3 9658 4512 | Fax: +61 3 9658 4555

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